WOULD YOU DO IT?
Aug. 19th, 2013 09:12 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
burnadette_dpdlSo this is my irrepressibly longer response to tori_writes's post "CAPSLOCK FRIDAY: WOULD YOU DO IT? EDITION" http://vc-media.dreamwidth.org/221174.html. A person could write volumes of dissertation on this subject. Especially with the caveats that:
1. IF YOU ACCEPT, HOWEVER, YOU MUST LEAVE YOUR LIFE BEHIND. YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO TURN ANYONE YOU KNEW OR EVER SEE THEM AGAIN. YOU CAN'T GO BACK FOR YOUR PETS OR FAKE YOUR DEATH OR DELETE YOUR INTERNET BROWSING HISTORY.
2. IF YOU SAY YES, THE VAMPIRE WILL WHISK YOU AWAY THEN AND THERE, AND YOU WILL HAVE TO REMAIN WITH THEM FOR AT LEAST 50 YEARS.
My publicly posted response, but in sentence case:
Had to wait for other people to post first, afraid to be the first to reply, for fear of attempting to be silly and it reading as flippant, or killing the post itself with a wall of text... So I'll try to keep it brief and go into more depth in my own damn journal, if anyone wants the larger wall of text to climb... XD
1. Would I do it? Yes! Of course. F*&k my family and friends, etc., lol. And I'd choose Louis. First of all, although he may appear weak, he's got strength enough. He's done it successfully twice. Further proof of strength: Aren't there sporadic references throughout the VC that he takes out any extraneous fledglings or vagabonds who dare to hunt New Orleans? And particularly appealing as targets if they have the brilliant idea to seek him or Lestat out (E.G., the fledglings and others circling the church holding a comatose Lestat in MtD). Plus, "the Dark Gift is different for each of us." So Louis could be a carrier of decent latent powers.
2. But more importantly, to get Louis in the position wherein he has to override his principles, he would have to be in that tantalizing state of bewitched devotion (E.G., Armand admitted to *pushing* Louis into giving it to Madeleine, and Merrick admitted to *pushing* him into giving it to her). To be on the receiving end of Louis' devotion, whether legitimate or not, would be intoxicating. Not even Lestat gets 100% devotion from Louis. Remember the tortured scene in TotBT in which Louis wouldn't give Lestat the Dark Gift. The ONE person Louis is supposed to be the MOST LEGITIMATELY DEVOTED TO. I've brought that scene up before, so I'll refrain from beating that particular dead horse. For NOW. Keeping the corpse for later...
3. So, choosing Louis, if I wanted Super Deluxe Brat Prince©®™ powers, too, seems that those are easily acquired as long as you know how to tease His Royal Bratness properly. One can argue that Merrick doesn't even count as canon, but she only had to exist as Louis' fledgling to be given Super Deluxe Brat Prince©®™ powers. Stat-y-pants loves to give that out. Stat-y-pants is a manwhore about giving that out. I think he lusts over the ACT of giving that out.
Okay, you want some more? Need to be plied with absinthe or a thimbleful of brandywine? Have some, then go to my damn journal. http://burnadette-dpdl.dreamwidth.org/1720.html
Longer response ACTIVATE:
But SERIOUSLY... I'm sure we've all considered such a question, with or without the caveats of divorcing your current life... if you're a hardcore VC fan, I would think that you would yearn to be part of the Coven of the Articulate. Somehow have a place within its particular flavor of love swirled with a ribbon of dark chocolatey tension... sprinkled with the spicy clashes... To exist with them, without interfering with the dynamics already there, would be to live in a kind of Wonderland.
As a friend of mine put it, and I will give her credit if she's willing to receive it: "As for having to cut yourself off from everyone you care about - yes, that would be painful. Selfish too, yes - but I sort of see it more as a hardship for ME, because I need those people in my life, than as a hardship for THEM, because they would miss me."
It's taken a long time to find my place, and to build those bonds with new friends and older ones, time and care to hold onto them over the years. To watch my family grow up and grow apart was painful, but it's the natural course of life. We all had to leave the nest someday. But we still return to it on occasion and even though the dynamics have changed, we still care about one another. I'm as separated from my brothers as Lestat felt, that they never really *got* him or cared to try. But he still sent them money and gifts when he had those things to give. Is he just a generous person? Maybe, but maybe he was also genuinely reaching out and trying to build a relationship with his family, if only from afar.
tori_writes's post "CAPSLOCK FRIDAY: WOULD YOU DO IT? EDITION" http://vc-media.dreamwidth.org/221174.html. A person could write volumes of dissertation on this subject. Especially with the caveats that:1. IF YOU ACCEPT, HOWEVER, YOU MUST LEAVE YOUR LIFE BEHIND. YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO TURN ANYONE YOU KNEW OR EVER SEE THEM AGAIN. YOU CAN'T GO BACK FOR YOUR PETS OR FAKE YOUR DEATH OR DELETE YOUR INTERNET BROWSING HISTORY.
2. IF YOU SAY YES, THE VAMPIRE WILL WHISK YOU AWAY THEN AND THERE, AND YOU WILL HAVE TO REMAIN WITH THEM FOR AT LEAST 50 YEARS.
My publicly posted response, but in sentence case:
Had to wait for other people to post first, afraid to be the first to reply, for fear of attempting to be silly and it reading as flippant, or killing the post itself with a wall of text... So I'll try to keep it brief and go into more depth in my own damn journal, if anyone wants the larger wall of text to climb... XD
1. Would I do it? Yes! Of course. F*&k my family and friends, etc., lol. And I'd choose Louis. First of all, although he may appear weak, he's got strength enough. He's done it successfully twice. Further proof of strength: Aren't there sporadic references throughout the VC that he takes out any extraneous fledglings or vagabonds who dare to hunt New Orleans? And particularly appealing as targets if they have the brilliant idea to seek him or Lestat out (E.G., the fledglings and others circling the church holding a comatose Lestat in MtD). Plus, "the Dark Gift is different for each of us." So Louis could be a carrier of decent latent powers.
2. But more importantly, to get Louis in the position wherein he has to override his principles, he would have to be in that tantalizing state of bewitched devotion (E.G., Armand admitted to *pushing* Louis into giving it to Madeleine, and Merrick admitted to *pushing* him into giving it to her). To be on the receiving end of Louis' devotion, whether legitimate or not, would be intoxicating. Not even Lestat gets 100% devotion from Louis. Remember the tortured scene in TotBT in which Louis wouldn't give Lestat the Dark Gift. The ONE person Louis is supposed to be the MOST LEGITIMATELY DEVOTED TO. I've brought that scene up before, so I'll refrain from beating that particular dead horse. For NOW. Keeping the corpse for later...
3. So, choosing Louis, if I wanted Super Deluxe Brat Prince©®™ powers, too, seems that those are easily acquired as long as you know how to tease His Royal Bratness properly. One can argue that Merrick doesn't even count as canon, but she only had to exist as Louis' fledgling to be given Super Deluxe Brat Prince©®™ powers. Stat-y-pants loves to give that out. Stat-y-pants is a manwhore about giving that out. I think he lusts over the ACT of giving that out.
Okay, you want some more? Need to be plied with absinthe or a thimbleful of brandywine? Have some, then go to my damn journal. http://burnadette-dpdl.dreamwidth.org/1720.html
Longer response ACTIVATE:
But SERIOUSLY... I'm sure we've all considered such a question, with or without the caveats of divorcing your current life... if you're a hardcore VC fan, I would think that you would yearn to be part of the Coven of the Articulate. Somehow have a place within its particular flavor of love swirled with a ribbon of dark chocolatey tension... sprinkled with the spicy clashes... To exist with them, without interfering with the dynamics already there, would be to live in a kind of Wonderland.
As a friend of mine put it, and I will give her credit if she's willing to receive it: "As for having to cut yourself off from everyone you care about - yes, that would be painful. Selfish too, yes - but I sort of see it more as a hardship for ME, because I need those people in my life, than as a hardship for THEM, because they would miss me."
It's taken a long time to find my place, and to build those bonds with new friends and older ones, time and care to hold onto them over the years. To watch my family grow up and grow apart was painful, but it's the natural course of life. We all had to leave the nest someday. But we still return to it on occasion and even though the dynamics have changed, we still care about one another. I'm as separated from my brothers as Lestat felt, that they never really *got* him or cared to try. But he still sent them money and gifts when he had those things to give. Is he just a generous person? Maybe, but maybe he was also genuinely reaching out and trying to build a relationship with his family, if only from afar.
no subject
Date: 2013-08-20 04:25 am (UTC)Which sort of ties in to the question of maintaining friendship or family bonds from "beyond the grave". I think this would also depend on how much you cared about the ones you left behind. Cutting off all contact might be tougher for you, but possibly also more merciful for them - because you couldn't really maintain the charade of "playing human" for very long, and sooner or later you would have to fake your death anyway, or just disappear without a trace and risk them losing their minds with worry (I'm thinking of Nicolas here). I think if I truly loved someone, I would rather believe them dead than know they are somewhere far away and all I'm ever going to see of them are gifts or money sent through the mail. That would make me feel like they don't give a shit and are just trying to appear magnanimous for their own sake. Just saying...
no subject
Date: 2013-08-21 12:47 pm (UTC)In fact, I've often been moved by reading about the expectations of people living far more recently - when a lot of people were leaving Ireland for America in the 19th century, their families used to give them what were called "American Wakes", because they had no hope of seeing them again.
But now you'd have to really contrive reasons not to see people - even if you move to the other side of the world, anyone close would expect photographs - though they can afford to mock something up with ageing makeup or Photoshop, it seems like being officially dead would be easier.
That said, I couldn't do that to people - either the fake death or the ambiguous disappearance thing. So having to figure our convincing ways of showing love without the secret being rumbled would effectively be the price paid for immortality.
no subject
Date: 2013-08-21 10:24 pm (UTC)I'd tend to agree with you. I'd want to visit them in disguises, and strike up conversations with them in a way that they wouldn't recognize me!
I'm not coming up with a "subject" title either.
Date: 2013-08-21 09:41 pm (UTC)I see your point, and I do agree at some level. Maybe because I didn't grow up in a religious environment, and I don't believe in an afterlife, the idea of saving one's soul hasn't been of much concern for me. It's unclear how religious Louis still is other than being fond of looking on crucifixes (lol!)... and we know Lestat desperately wants to be Pope, at least in the later books. So they WOULD care about the possibility of redemption, a chance at going to heaven after death.
From the movie, that scene with decrepit Lestat actually works better in reference to this ongoing tension of Lestat wanting and Louis resisting:
Stat: "Noone could resist me. Not even you."
Louis: "I tried."
Stat: "Yes, and the more you tried, the more I wanted you."
I think this is such a sticking point for me because, looking at it from Louis' p.o.v., I wouldn't be able to refuse Lestat "what he wants just because he wants it." Although, Louis is stronger than people give him credit for, he's almost in a constant state of refusal, and whenever he gives in, it's worth so much more!
And from Lestat's p.o.v. it seems unfathomable that Louis could go on living without Lestat. After all, as Lestat said, "Life, without me, would be even more unbearable." That line was from the movie, too. It's sentiment is so accurate that it must count as canon.
Yes, that really happened to him. Can't fault Lestat at that time, he was given very little instruction, and was making it up as he went along. He must have learned from that experience, and that's probably why he let Louis remain with his family and try to go on with business as usual.
Well Maharet kept in touch with her family this way. She led them to believe there was always a New Maharet, it wasn't the same person over the centuries! A little bit of a stretch, but I suspended disbelief. Jesse had a good relationship with her from afar, until she got too close, and knew something was off about Maharet and Mael.... that would be supporting your feeling that just cutting your ties would be better, in the long run, than leading people on from afar.
Re: I'm not coming up with a "subject" title either.
Date: 2013-08-22 01:17 am (UTC)looking at it from Louis' p.o.v., I wouldn't be able to refuse Lestat "what he wants just because he wants it."
Me neither. Hands down. But then, I am not Catholic.:P
he's almost in a constant state of refusal, and whenever he gives in, it's worth so much more!
Oh yes. It totally is.:D
Maharet did keep in touch with her family, but that was centuries after she "died". None of those distant relatives she visited had known her as a mortal woman. It was easy for her to create this mysterious "benefactor aunt" persona from afar. And if someone got too close and started to wonder, she was powerful enough to mess with their memories. Also, she grew up in a world where magic and the supernatural were considered perfectly "normal" phenomena that nobody ever questioned. She probably never thought: "wow, I am this thing that shouldn't even exist". But she had also been around long enough to understand how people's perceptions of all this phenomena have changed over the ages. And I think her motivations for keeping track of her family tree were different from those of "young" vampires who simply missed their mortal families or companions. She was caring and interested, but also detached in a scholarly way - as only someone used to long centuries of loneliness could possibly be... She didn't crave or create close personal bonds with mortals - until Jesse... and we all know how THAT ended...:P
Re: I'm not coming up with a "subject" title either.
Date: 2013-08-23 10:29 pm (UTC)The masochism works, too. Maybe that's another reason Louis puts up with so much shit. He's patient maybe because he thinks he deserves to be put-upon constantly. Viciously sometimes. Like the relgious order(s) that used to flagellate themselves...
Yeah good point re: Maharet. All her family relationships were long distance from the beginning and that worked fine until Jesse. Although Mael really could have tried to protect her more aggressively at the concert as soon as she got off stage. Major FAIL, bodyguard-Mael.
Re: I'm not coming up with a "subject" title either.
Date: 2013-08-24 11:42 pm (UTC)I had the rare pleasure of growing up in a tiny provincial town where EVERYONE was Catholic (except my immediate family, and maybe one or two other people my parents knew) - much as is the case with most tiny provincial towns in Poland. So I have a fair idea of what it can do to people. How the list of things you're supposed to feel guilty about never really ends, and how deeply concerned you should be for anyone who ISN'T Catholic and is therefore clearly going to hell (which is what other kids used to confer about in dramatic whispers behind my back). But that's a topic for a whole another conversation...
Mael's failure to protect Jesse was just a plot device - Anne needed a good excuse for Maharet to make her a vampire... ;>
no subject
Date: 2013-08-21 11:41 am (UTC)It's also interesting to flip things and imagine how that must have looked to the villagers, come the Revolution - they're getting by in whatever ways they can, while the lords take their greater wealth and security for granted so much that they can afford to run it down! Lestat hunted to keep his family alive, but it should never have come to that if they'd had a healthy estate (which would in turn have employed more people). I've got away from my point about the family, but you get the idea: there was a malaise there which Lestat, as part of his growth process, tried to break out of and fix in various ways, but finally had to leave altogether. I think that's very familiar to a lot of people from unhealthy family situations - as is his urge to give back to, and to raise up, what he's left behind.
I wonder how things would have worked out if his family had all escaped the Revolution. Would they all have come with his father and ended up with Lestat and Louis? Would that have stabilised the situation (giving Louis a substitute for the mortal family he was losing by degrees) or worsened it?
significance of gifts
Date: 2013-08-21 10:18 pm (UTC)I never considered that, but yes. Lestat's father couldn't be that proud of himself. Maybe his blindness was a metaphor for how he couldn't see anything in life clearly anymore. It had to be somewhat emasculating, too, that his youngest child was providing the family's dinner. Might be good for a fic...
Yes. Even though they (other than Gabrielle) seemed not to care very much about him , he still cared for them and wanted to improve their lot, if possible.
So true. How did the villagers reconcile themselves with the fact that they wanted to honor Lestat for ridding them of the wolves, while hating him just for being part of the lord's family? Maybe he had earned their respect in saving their livestock. Made me think of this clip from Life of Brian!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0
Oh god, can you imagine? Probably the Worst case scenario: Lestat's brothers would take over and sit around like lords of the manor ordering the slaves to entertain them, and you know douchebag Augustin would end up cheating on his wife with a slave or something. And Louis would really lose his shit and kick them all out.
Best case scenario: Louis didn't know he was such a kid-person until Claudia. He might have really connected with Lestat's nephews and nieces. Being with them might have given him the chance to replace the bad memories of his brother with new ones. Less intense scrutiny from Lestat, who would have to micromanage his own family, would definitely help Louis stabilize his own situation.
... Either way, I would read such a fic :)